What a difference between pilgrim and hiker?

http://www.aucoeurduchemin.org/spip/spip.php?page=forum&id_rubrique=34&id_forum=28674&retour=spip.php%3Fpage%3Dforum_modere#forum28674

A forum post above :

First, let me say that so-called the historical paths of St. James would probably not correspond to current traces with the exception of some passages in pilgrimage sites such as Saint-Sernin in Toulouse, Saint Martin Tours, The Black Madonna Le Puy, the tomb of Saint-Gilles. Indeed, contrary to popular belief, the jacquets and all other pilgrims had no roads reserved, they walked the same roads all travelers. All the paths has been improved only for commercial or military reasons.

The Way of Saint James have in fact been reinvented in the 70’s and lobbying elected officials especially those of Le Puy-en-Velay, resulted in the recognition by Europe.

The road, incidentally, is a historic route European (inscription as a World Heritage by UNESCO, under the Camino francés  » a cultural landscape that is continuous linear passes of the Pyrenees to the town of Saint-Jacques de Compostela « and the same goes for » the road to Compostela in France « ).


And finally, all the better that this path is a route unique European history for all walkers of the world. I think indeed that there are no other ways: – as long, – also attended, – accessible to non-believers – especially in Spain also secured by the Guardia Civil – both equipped with shelters, hotels, taxi stands, shops of all kinds,- not through that democracies – on which one speaks English and Spanish. This is not the case for e  Shikoku pilgrimage  in Japan, where the pilgrims speak only Japanese So back to the devotion to Saint-Jacques, which has little meaning on the road to Santiago. Past reality was probably much simpler, shrines dedicated to the apostle were scattered in all parts of Europe. The pilgrims of the Middle Ages did in shrines made ​​close to home. The purported relic in the village or town nearby had as much value in their eyes, as preserved at the end of Spain. They did not have to risk their lives to spend a lot of money to walk more than 50 days, abandoning spouse and children. Gullible today, you are free to believe that believers of yesterday seekers a favor to St Jacques undertook the interminable journey to Santiago to pray at the tomb of the saint, while in Galicia there. The few ancient testimonies do not credible practice of mass pilgrimage in centuries past. The Arthurian legends, that of Roland, or like Saint-Jacques the bully are just legends. You can also go a little paper slip through the cracks of the rock tomb of Merlin Brocéliande.

You say: These are – mostly – for hikers lost on tracks millennia of meditation and – theoretically – in piety.
What piety? The road to the Puy Roncesvalles is a GR, a hiking trail, it is not the so-called pilgrims. Besides all the hikers on this path are the pilgrims of Saint Jacques.
You ask: we ask – more often – that some people will do on a pilgrimage … Otherwise try to find benefits more and more « high end » at rates « for pilgrims’!Should know: hear the sounds of the body of its neighbors, it’s high end! The prices are not made ​​for the pilgrims, they are simply the price of a performance summary and low-end as in a dormitory on the GR 20 in the high mountain refuges or any shelter. Remember to memory the following definitions: « Walking: It’s a outdoor activity consisting of a long walk that is done on foot, bicycle, horseback, skis, etc.. … On a circuit usually marked. The walk is both an opportunity to explore and a form of exercise.  » « Randonneur: This or that which makes a walk a fairly long walk – hiker, walker, hiker, tourist … » « Pilgrimage: Journey of one or more persons to a place dedicated and / or saint, » « Pilgrim : A person who has undertaken a journey to a place of worship in a spirit of piety «  This is not the time to push open doors taking us for fools. Copy the dictionary definitions do not seem a very relevant argument. It would be more interesting to philosophize about the difference between religion and religiosity, spirituality and belief. The « religious doctrine » which you seem to request the application has no place in the search for spirituality of the walker. He refuses the constraint of virtuous conduct.As one professor of sociology in the long march to Compostela, there spiritualism but not religious sense. This pilgrimage is not recoverable by the church, but he draws something rather diffuse that the human animal has a need to get back to work. Spirituality is not compatible with religious dogma . Everyone has their own definition of his own spirituality cobbled together from his aspirations, his experiences in building the identity that suits them best. Spirituality is above all an attitude, a mindset, a permanent opening on the other and the world. A state of being that does not rely on preconceived ideas, dogmas sclerosing but always tends towards the discovery of the unknown, discovering oneself, others and the universe. Spirituality is a state of being that refuses to be locked up, indoctrinated or cloistered in a temple. You continue: « However, it is clear to see that more and more people are on these paths by losing sight of the meaning. » (…)  « Today, we find a lot of people behaving as » hikers tourist « rather than the Pilgrims. « 

Believers who want to go on pilgrimage to Compostela are not going to walk. They take the bus or fly to Santiago to Lourdes to Fatima to Rome to Our Lady of La Salette, or to Mecca must stop all these lies about Compostela, over the years jacquaires-attendance, the race to bed The Catholic proselytism, Islamophobia, like the drag club meetings, the nature of trade in France, snorers, bedbugs, insecurity, the opposition pilgrim walkers, cyclists, pedestrians and so on!
All this it’s fake! It even helps to discredit the hike in general and the Camino de Santiago in particular.

Ultimately, I doubt that you made the journey on foot. Or we must do it again soon, because of you, meditation has not had the lasting effects observed on the other pilgrims particularly with regard to tolerance and letting go. Hiking in the long term has not awakened the right hemisphere of your brain, the seat of intuition and perception of space, making it produce endorphins. Without these endorphins you have taken no pleasure. You were not in a trance and inner clarity, lucidity or hyper.

PourdirkoiSeptember 4, 2011

The terrors of the dormitories. FlorenceOUAHOU A! A « on »

What a lesson! It’s like the return to school! What about the hardness! « On » (1), since there is no signature you it put into practice his good advice?
Florence.

In Florence:
I do not know who is « on » (1), I read his long speech, I find no harshness or aggression. It is even very deep and we can better understand certain things, it opens the mind, or at least it helps balance the ideas we have come a long way. They did or not. Because even if we did, or is often done, if we start always with the same « state » of mind, nothing will change in our inner self. We will return home still in the same «  » without significant change, except blablater the fact that it has done and redone and rerefait and blah blah blah blah and on blogs, shoes, light bulbs, foot care and more.
‘s all hollow. Everything is superficial.
On the way, there is a semblance of altruism that lasts only the time of the path.
Go, courage, walk as you like!

It isSeptember 4, 2011

In Florence and future pilgrims

« We are back to school! » Here’s a thought that is really advanced the debate. You claim to walk on the road since 1999: big deal! We are all here. And you remember that the paths of these bugs and the sounds of your neighbors to barracks. I (called « on » by some sort of random computer 😉 I can not let write the path comes down to the sounds of the body and is reserved for so-called pilgrims.

Future pilgrims who pass through here to find out: Do not believe a word of all this nonsense! Turn the corner and walk to Santiago, without worry or insects, or religious proselytizing, or noises in the albergues. Do not worry about accommodation, do not hold your place in advance, leave without fear and go to the other, talk with them, eat with them, sleep near them, drink beer and wine them.

Do not read a single book « Forward route » the story of Alix de Saint-Andre a gem of truth on this path our imagination since childhood.

Following —————– ——————————- ——————————————

http://www.aucoeurduchemin.org/spip/spip.php?rubrique34 forum28687 # 
The following was posted on the forum above

The pilgrimage to Santiago is not, in my opinion, essentially a problem of snoring.
So even if I am alone in this new post to look for « Why are more and more people walking on these paths so that all religions are slowing? I continue my rantings. To avoid cluttering the other thread that deals with the sounds of the body, I opened a new one.

As I also write for me 😉 You can find this message on my blog:  http://carnets-de-croquis.blogspot.com/

Let’s go:

In the late eighth century, the monk Beatus of Liebana, speaking of St. Jacques as the savior of Christian orthodoxy and the Patron of Spain: « Spain’s shining head, protector and patron of our country. »
Pou realize this belief is July 25, 1813, according to tradition that Peel, a hermit followed a star to see the sarcophagus of St. Jacques le Majeur in a field – it’s the Campus Stellae, scope of the star.
This is the beginning of the pilgrimage to the relics. Twenty years later, the king of Asturias is the way from Oviedo. a century and then Godescal Camino primitivo, or primary path). In 950, it Godescalc, the bishop of Puy-Sainte-Marie, who made ​​the pilgrimage.

A century later the Spanish way is well organized to facilitate the flow of pilgrims with its churches, hospitals, bridges. But according to the Paris I-Sorbonne thesis of Denise Péricard-Mea « Compostela and worship of St. Jacques in the Middle Ages » PUF October 2000: hospitals and monasteries were not created specifically for pilgrims, this is a misconception transmitted by the enthusiasm of the first researchers who rediscovered Compostela and saw milestones in hospitals to find the old roads of Galicia.

In the twelfth century Pope Calixtus II had written the Codex Calixtinus, a copy was stolen or misplaced July 7, 2011 in Santiago. In the 5th book of the Codex of St Jacques the four major French channels of Tours, Vézelay, Le Puy and St.-Gilles are described and the Spanish Steps.
Pilgrims by the thousands would then set off on foot or on horseback to the relics of St-Jacques.
Some go to be forgiven their sins, others to do penance, others to serve a sentence and so on.
Yet even then the pilgrims of the Middle Ages were not more credulous than we , while stressing that popular piety needs great, the famous « dream » which now cling so many pilgrims to Compostela.

The monk Guibert of Nogent highly critical, its dan Treaty of relics, the cult of relics as practiced in his time. It is not heretical, his book is not condemned (it is not intended to leave the monasteries, which proves that his reasoning is perfectly allowable. The Church is not deceived, but it already maintains a clear boundary between the elite who knows, and the people who did not need to know. Instead of the concept of « credo quia absurdum » (it is better not to understand everything to believe), creed obscurantism ever Renaissance, the concept of « credo ut intelligam » (I think to understand) is taken as four centuries later when reform happens.
Then Erasmus, the philosopher is challenging the cult of relics that benefit that the monastic orders.
Luther also questions the authenticity of the relics of St Jacques and publishes 1517.près a hundred theses denouncing the indulgences sold to support the rebuilding of St. Peter’s in Rome.
As the Protestant Reformation, Counter-Reformation Catholic accepts the necessity, the superiority of the spiritual pilgrimage to the earthly journey deemed superstitious. It recognizes that the worship of relics is unbiblical and even idolatrous.
The Church has also a vested interest to support the spiritual pilgrimage that maintains the pilgrim in his parish at the foot of the tower, rather than see him get out of control dogmatic on the way.
It was at this time that the relics of Saint-Jacques are so hidden in the cathedral of Saintiago, the place of the hiding place was forgotten until 1879.

Pope Leo XIII recognized as the real relics. in the Apostolic Letter Deus Omnipotens of November 1884: « According to oral tradition constant spread everywhere, going back to apostolic times and also confirmed by our predecessors Public Letters, St. Jacques was convicted of the martyrdom of beheaded by King Herod, and his body was secretly removed by his two disciples, Athanasius and Theodore. The latter, fearing that the relics of St. Jacques were not wiped out if they were to fall into the hands of the Jews, carried them on a ship and departed from Judea. After a prosperous voyage, they reached Spain, and having bypassed, they landed on the coast at the end of Galicia, the country, according to a pious tradition, had been evangelized by St. Jacques, of divine inspiration, after the Ascension of Christ.
arrived at the Spanish town called Iria Flavia, they resolved to settle there in a small area. They laid the relics of the apostle, they made, within a crypt dug in a rock and a loculus built in the Roman manner, above the tomb, they erected a small chapel. When Athanasius and Theodore had finished their run fatal Christians of the place, with great reverence in these two holy men, would not separate their body from that of the saint they had so piously preserved their lives. They then placed them in the same grave, one in right and one left of the Apostle.  »
(source:  
http://www.saint-jacques.info/bulle.html )

This rediscovery of 1879 was probably connected with the many apparitions of the Virgin Mary at La Salette, Lourdes, Fatima and elsewhere. Rapidly becoming places of worship, they compete with the pilgrimage to Santiago.
Indeed in 1867, only forty pilgrims meet in Saint-Jacques for the feast of the apostle on July 25.

In 1900, Monsignor Louis Duchesne, also puts in question the apostolate of Saint Jacques in Spain but also the authenticity of the relics venerated at Compostela. Note that Louis Duchesne was not anyone, he was elected academician in 1910.

Finally, a painting Meruvia Reque, the Archives Military General in Madrid is Galician, General Franco on his white horse at the top of St-Jacques.
Franco has promoted research into Compostela and, in some ways, he marked the rise of contemporary pilgrimage, indirectly owes him much. It was Franco who allowed only Vielliard Jeanne, to translate the Latin document Aimery Picaud Parthenay en1938. This authorization was only granted because the translator adheres to the ideas of Franco. (Source: 
http://www.saint-jacques-compostell … )

But fortunately for the majority of pilgrims, St Jacques is not the bully it is an excuse to walk on the road to St Jacques de Compostela.

Finally and most recently during archaeological excavations, the bones found lost in the sixteenth century.I lost the year but if anyone can complete …

For all those reasons to doubt the word « grave » has also disappeared from the discourse of the last two popes. John Paul II spoke of the « Memorial of St. Jacques, » without using the word « relics » Benedict XVI said simply that the Cathedral of Compostela « is related to the memory of St. Jacques ». « 

This post is largely inspired by the article by Gaël de La Brosse: http://www.pelerin.info/Chemins-de-pelerinage/Choisir-son-chemin

Mollaret LouisSeptember 27, 2011

Pilgrim or hiker? relics of St Jacques?

Here is an article that borrows heavily in the work of Denise Péricard Mea-that drives the association of scholars of which I am president. He deserves a first comment.

I would first like to report a quote from our site whose content is not consistent with what we wrote and which  I request immediate correction.

It is written:

It was Franco who allowed only Vielliard Jeanne, to translate the Latin document Aimery Picaud Parthenay en1938. This authorization was only granted because the translator adheres to the ideas of Franco. (Source:http://www.saint-jacques-compostell .. .)

The relevant passage of our site is:

Franco revived studies Compostela, which allowed to open the archives to foreign authors who translated Vielliard as Jeanne in 1938, the last book of the Codex Calixtinus  under the title  Pilgrim’s Guide to Saint Jacques de Compostela .

Thank you to the webmaster to correct this quotation or to leave it to the author, even Gaëlle de La Brosse whose author claims to have inspired. I would be surprised, however, she could write that.

Mollaret Louis (2)

(1) « on » otherwise « off » simply means that the author of the message is « on line »
(2) Louis Mollaret    
http://lodel.irevues.inist.fr/saintjacquesinfo/index.php?id = 836

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